Yeah, But it’s Risky: A Commercial Pilot’s Take On Embracing Uncertainty | EP. 3 with Capt. Jimmy Ward

From flying at 30,000 feet to navigating challenges on the ground, pilots face their own ‘Yeah, Buts.’ Risk is constant, and the path forward isn’t always clear. How does one commercial airline captain turn turbulence into opportunities for growth and resilience?

About Jimmy Ward

From a young age, flying was in Jimmy’s blood. His Grandfather, a seasoned pilot in the United States Air Force, instilled a passion for aviation in his children by teaching them how to fly. His natural talent and unwavering dedication propelled him to new heights, quite literally. After completing his training and obtaining the necessary licenses, Jimmy embarked on an illustrious career as a commercial pilot. His expertise extended beyond a single aircraft, as he became proficient in flying three different commercial airliners, a remarkable feat in itself. Today, Jimmy stands as a testament to the power of passion and perseverance, honoring his father’s legacy with every successful journey.

Marc’s links

• Get a free chapter of his book: ‘Yeah, But’
• Interested in being on the Yeah, But Podcast?

Follow Marc A. Wolfe on social media for more resources:

• LinkedIn
• X

Transcript

Jimmy Ward: The inherent risk of failure, or injury, or even death is much greater in what I do, but we take on that risk everyday, right? If I couldn’t step in that airplane at 14, not knowing anything, if I didn’t take that first step, I wouldn’t be here where I am.

Marc Wolfe: Welcome to the Yeah, But Podcast, where leaders tune in when they want to be unstuck and unstoppable. I’m Marc Wolfe, president of Marc A. Wolfe Enterprises and author of Yeah, But …Cut Through the Noise to Live, Learn, and Lead Better. In each episode, I interview relatable people who share their Yeah, Buts, along with their doubts, fears, and alibis, and then share how to overcome them to unlock true potential.

Whether it’s personal growth, leadership challenges, or simply living with more intention, The Yeah, But Podcast is all about turning those excuses into actions. So if you’re ready to stop being held back and start moving forward, you’re in the right place. Let’s get started.

Hello, Jimmy Ward. Thanks for joining us on The Yeah, But Podcast.

Jimmy Ward: Thanks for having me. I’m glad to be here.

Marc Wolfe: You know, Jimmy, I want to tell people what you do, you would expect that some people that have your occupation would be interested.

His grandfather was a pilot in the United States Air Force and instilled a passion for aviation in his grandchildren and family by teaching him how to fly. His natural talent and unwavering dedication propelled him to new heights, literally. After completing his training and obtaining his license, Jimmy embarked on a career as a commercial pilot. He’s a captain and his expertise extended beyond a single aircraft as he became proficient in flying three different commercial airliners.

And what I think is even interesting, that’s not even on his bio is that Jimmy works in test planes to make sure they’re actually functioning correctly. That’s an extended part of his job is to make sure that all the parts and all the updates and all the everything else to get them back in service, to put them in the desert when they actually have to go and go offline.

And that’s just part of your job in addition to flying back and forth. And, uh, you have loved flying for as long as I’ve known you, there’s not a time I don’t hang around you where you’re not looking up and looking at a plane or wondering about that. So, Jimmy, tell us a little bit about this, this passion for flying, and how it ties into you being so structured and organized.

Jimmy Ward: Well, the passion did start a couple of generations ago with my grandfather. I was always enamored as a kid. Listening to him speak, about his combat experience as an aircraft commander to B 24 in the 8th Air Force in World War II, to be able to survive 31 missions in the war as an aircraft commander, see other crew members killed in action and to be in action. Because he did all these things that were so noble and courageous. And I want to be like that. And he passed these traits down to my dad and he’s a pilot as well. So he taught me, he was my instructor most of my way through my ratings.

Marc Wolfe: That’s a great story and I’ve seen pictures of you with your dad. I think one of the yeah, buts you mentioned was, yeah, but it’s not safe. It’s risky. You’re an airline pilot. So tell me about this it’s not safe thing.

Jimmy Ward: There’s an inherent risk in, in flying an airplane, or some people say an aluminum tin can, 600 miles an hour. So yes, I think risk can also equal reward if stewarded well. The inherent risk of failure, or injury, or even death is much greater in what I do, but we take on that risk everyday, right? If I couldn’t step in that airplane at 14, not knowing anything, if I didn’t take that first step, I wouldn’t be here where I am. So I had to rely on my mentor, my father. So I think a lot of the, yeah, but it’s risky needs to be just contained, like, yes, it is. I’m not going to live in fear of that. I’m going to embrace it and learn how to mitigate that risk and learn how to take certain strategies use my knowledge, and use my my discernment, so much so that it moves down.

Everything has inherent risk it’s just how you deal with it, and how you mitigate it, and how you treat it. You know, is it something that you’re going to be fearful of and just cave? Or are you going to embrace that and say, yeah, it’s risky, but the rewards are great and I’m going to do this.

Marc Wolfe: Thank you for that, Jimmy. You know, we talk about in the book about not doing something actually is a risk as well because there’s an obligation. To do things sometimes you’re gifted with some things that not doing it or ignoring it actually could put you in a worse position and people forget that they only think of risk as attempting something and they forget that not attempting something.

So it’s interesting that, you know, that statistically flying is safer than driving a car. But people don’t even walk around their car to see if anything’s even sticking out of the side of their tire. So, Jimmy, so when you look at risk, right, what do you, how do you discern like just overall how to move forward with something that, you know, generally people consider risky outside your profession, just overall.

Jimmy Ward: So I think you have to step back and you have to realize what you’re looking at, right?

And you have to make that decision, do I cower down and not accept the risk or do I embrace it and move forward? And you have to make that decision first in your mind of, no, this is doable.

If it’s the risk of me flying from A to B, there are a thousand threats along the way. Is it weather? Is it maintenance? Is it air traffic control, is it, well, what is the risk that I have today?

It’s all about mitigation, and wisdom and knowledge and building a team. It’s just everyday life, or test flying airplanes, or operating and leading a surgery team. So there’s different levels of risk, but managing it, seems to be very similar in how we do that.

Marc Wolfe: That leads to the next question. We have a yeah, but what’s the plan? Tell me more about how that can be a yeah, but that sometimes you have to overcome.

Jimmy Ward: Well, we all like to have plans, especially you and I. We’re type A’s, right? We like to have everything laid out, everything structured. But very rarely in life, is it that way? Right? We’re often throwing curve balls. That happened to us when I was a young pilot I had to achieve the certifications and licenses and ratings to fly for the airlines. So I did that at 23 which is absolutely the youngest age you could possibly do that.

When I was 27 I got a letter from the airline saying, thank you so much for your service, we no longer need you. It’s now post 9/11, and people aren’t flying in airplanes, so we don’t need pilots flying empty airplanes around, so thank you so much for your service have a nice day. So my point of the story is, the plan that I had was radically derailed by circumstances outside of my control. It’s just life,right? What does it look like when there’s no plan? How do you steward that well? Well, I think you just step up. So my plan was to start over. And I had some friends approach me, they were like ‘Hey we’re in the insurance industry’. Why don’t you come to work with us? I was like, oh, okay, have insurance. That’s about all I know about insurance.

So it was a 3-year period of learning, growing, and developing in a different field, right? That was the new plan. And it wasn’t clear at all. Because there was no plan. I was just doing something in the moment to take care of the family, to do what I had to do, which was a radical pivot from what I had been doing. But when you have a chance to do that, and you look back 20 years later, you know, I’m just filled with joy and gratitude for the skills that I learned, the people I met, the way I that I was able to grow in these skill sets.

Marc Wolfe: You know, when you mentioned this, you know, career changes, a lot of people have difficulty with career changes, especially at a young age, it’s not something you just jump into, the barriers to entry are hard, right? Expensive. You got to pay for training, even if you have your own plane. You know, there’s a lot of things to it. You know, you went from desiring at 14 to 23 and you went and you have no control when they let you go or 9/11 or any of that things that do that. I know you’re back in the, obviously in the airline industry again.

So obviously things change for the better. But what advice do you give to somebody who’s struggling to develop a clear plan or direction and they really are planners and they don’t handle lack of plans really well and they want everything all scoped out and they’re like, I’m going to have kids at this age, or I’m going to do this.

Not saying that that wasn’t you, Jimmy, that you might’ve also had plans, but what kind of advice do you give to those people?

Jimmy Ward: I would say, hold your plan loosely. Okay. Know what you want to do and work towards that. As we discussed before, develop your team, right? Develop your mentors, pull from people who are in the same field, in the same situations, learn from them, and move forward with that plan, you know, pray about it, seek the Lord on that and go for it, but hold those things loosely, right? Our jobs don’t define us, you know, sometimes, oh, Jimmy, he’s the pilot.

I am, but I’m a family man, you know, I’m all these other things. My job doesn’t define me, but yes, we all have to have jobs. So I would say stick to the plan, right? And be flexible to pivot because sometimes when you’re working on that plan, the ultimate end game might pivot. You might get a calling to do something else along those lines. So be wise, use your resources as we’ve discussed, but hold the plan loosely. It’s not the end all be all.

Marc Wolfe: Hey there. It’s time for a quick break. While we’re diving into how to live, learn and lead better, I wanted to let you in on something I’m really excited about. If you’ve ever found yourself stuck in the yeah, but cycle, those moments where excuses get in your way of your potential. My new book, Yeah, But Cut Through the Noise to Live, Learn and Lead Better is for you. The book is packed with practical strategies, real stories, and actionable advice to help you stop making excuses and start making progress. Whether you’re a leader, a learner, or just someone looking to cut through the noise, Yeah, But has something for you. And here’s the best part, for a limited time you can grab a chapter for free.

Just head over to my website at www.marcawolfe.com/book to get started. Readers have already said that the perspective and stories guided them to get unstuck and move forward. All right, let’s get back to the show and dive into more ways to break through those yeah, but moments.

Marc Wolfe: Another thing that I think comes up a lot with people especially men or type As or there’s certain behavioral traits for people. And that’s why I give people assessments. It’s kind of like supports a lot of times what they’re already doing. It gives you data behind it.

But it’s like when somebody so committed, you’re like, you have to do training, you have to have so many landings every 90 days. There’s certain requirements. CPAs have to go and get certain new classes. They have to learn. So, you know, there’s a lot of professions that require a lot of detail and require a lot of additional information and also you can’t really schedule.

So what do you talk about people when they’re trying to plan a career? Let’s say they want to become a pilot or something else. And they’re just like, okay, how do you balance between having a family, having a career, providing for your young family, how do you balance that?

Jimmy Ward: Well, again, it’s important to know who you are, right? Who are you? Does your work define you? Does the Lord define you? Does your family define you? What is your goal in life? And for me personally, it is to be the best child of God that I can be, right? And what does that look like?

Well, I’ll tell you, it’s something that’s developed over time. If you keep it your top priority, you will prioritize things and everything else will naturally fall into place. I’m not saying life is going to be perfect and rainbows and lollipops because, as I told you, for me, it was not. And for many people, it’s not, you know, the plan is almost never a 100% perfect as you line it out, you know from beginning to end, so knowing who you are is the first step, and what your priorities are, right. And again, along the way, you may have that feeling of, I really think that I’m supposed to be doing something else, and one example for us was, in our early 20s, we were part of a group, and I’ll just say that, and it was a great group of people, that we developed fantastic friendships with.

It was great. It just felt wonderful, but something was missing, right? We weren’t necessarily growing. We were just in a place of comfort if you will. But when you’re being called to grow and develop and do something else, and I think the worst thing you can do is not embrace that. I mean, sure there’s a period of just starting. And we had a lot of yeah, buts, yeah, but we’re comfortable, you know? Yeah, but this feels great. Yeah, but how can this be bad? But it wasn’t bad, it was just you’re not growing and developing, and maturing, and reaching your full potential. That’s great for vacation, but for life, we’re being called to do more than that. So when we make the decision, for the comfort and the ease, we don’t, we’re limited, right? We’re limiting ourselves and I think that can easily seep in the family line, relationships, work, cause you’re in a mindset of just no worries, it’s all good, right. Let’s not be people like that. Let’s be people that want the challenge, that strive for greatness, that want to be everything that we were created to be. And this always pays off. It’s not always easy, but it always pays off.

Marc Wolfe: Yeah, it’s uh, conviction over convenience, right, Jimmy? One of the other yeah, buts that you mentioned was what will other people say or think? So tell me about some things that you’re like, had to overcome that you were concerned that people were going to think, but then you did work through them, and you’re like, I believe that’s not a concern anymore.

Jimmy Ward: Right, so let’s go back to this previous example, leaving this group of comfort and just wonderful friendship, which is always great. But in order to grow, you have to be challenged, right, and you have to be set apart from your comfort zone, and it’s gonna hurt a little bit, but in the end, it’s your life and you have a decision to make, everyday we have decisions to make.

Marc Wolfe: There’s a lot of people out there, Jimmy, that, aren’t where you are today, right? This didn’t happen overnight, right? And you credit a lot of this to your upbringing and just your family fed into you and spent that, but unfortunately for a lot of different reasons, that’s not the case for a lot of people, they don’t know what their career is at 14, right?

And they don’t have a family support system. How do you create that daily habit or practice or what gets you over the hump when you didn’t have something that was there to go and be able to reinforce it? What do you do to be able to help make that happen?

Jimmy Ward: For me, I draw on the Lord when I don’t know what to do. I ask him and ask for direction and I’m in a constant relationship with him, right? To be in a relationship, just like our friendship, right?

I’m going You have to talk and express feelings and express thoughts, but you also have to listen. It’s a two-way street, you can’t have a relationship without those two things. You have to be a good listener and a good communicator. And, yes, we went through some very difficult times where we didn’t know, right? Because my plan was derailed. It was just a huge benefit and a blessing and that I knew I wanted to do at at 14, but that was gone in 23, 27. So, knowing that that was my passion and that was what I was called to do, is be a pilot, and I just had no doubt in my mind. Everybody has a passion to do something. You may not have discovered it yet, but again, but by being in a relationship with people, having deep, meaningful conversations, you’re going to find what that passion is.

The Lord didn’t create us to go through life alone. He created us to be around other people. So surround yourself with people that can build you up and in your faith life and your family and your work, or whatever situation you find yourself in.

Marc Wolfe: Until you actually get to live it out, it still seems like a mystery, right? So anyone that doesn’t yet understand what a career could feel like they love, right? So let’s just expand it even beyond faith, right? It’s like if you don’t know what it’s like and you see other people, you sometimes excuse it out to say, well, that’s just them, right?

It’s because of their gender or because of where they grew up or it’s because of their family . That all may be true. The thing is, is that not one way is for people to find a career, right? There’s not just one way for them to find a spouse and be able to stay married. It’s a culmination of a lot of different things.

But one of the things I talk about a lot is the yeah, buts, which is like, we can excuse our way, just like you could have and been like, well, I guess my career’s over, I guess it just was done. And instead you persevere. That’s the thing I want to make sure people understand is that there’s a lot of reasons we can give or yeah, buts to go and say why things don’t happen, why they don’t happen for you, what could change, why it doesn’t change.

And maybe if we turn it and we change the perspective, it’s going to be more of, well, what happens if it’s possible? What happens if I cared less about what people thought and more about what I think about myself? What happens if I go and I don’t have a plan, but I have part of a plan. And what happens if I go until I fail?

And then how much further did I get because I at least started it, right? So each kind of conversation we have with ourself is so important for people to understand. It’s like, Oh, maybe I’m just looking at it upside down. Maybe if I just changed the way I looked at it.

Jimmy Ward: And you know what? , Along this process, there’s going to be failures, right? And those aren’t bad, right? They hurt at the moment. My plan failed. But it was for a very good reason, right? You know, through those three years of not having a job, the humility piece was allowed to grow inside of me.

And right up that to that two, two and a half year mark, my prayers were like Lord, I don’t care , you’ve allowed me to do everything that I wanted you to do, that’s fine. If you just want to pull me out, that’s fine. Just show me where you want me to be. And once I had that heart change and realization of it, humility come my life, I think the Lord was like, see? That’s exactly what I wanted for you. And it was literally weeks after that where I was able to get another flying job and move back into the path that he had for me. So having the right perspective, holding your plans loosely, pulling in from advisors and people full of wisdom will take you a long way.

The worst thing we could do is just be hermits and not go out in world.

Marc Wolfe: Well, Jimmy, thank you for taking the time. Was there any questions or any closing comments that you have?

Jimmy Ward: I don’t just, uh, very happy for you on this book. I’m excited to see it all come together and can’t wait to read it.

Marc Wolfe: I appreciate it. And, and in the show notes, we’ll have ways for people to reach out to you if they have other questions because you just, that’s the thing about these conversations, Jimmy, you never know. How people are gonna be like, I can’t believe he’s telling my story, right? Like, this is what I’ve lived through, even though I’m not a pilot, or, and that’s why I wrote Yeah, But, it’s like, why do I have a right to write this?

I don’t, but I’ve been called to because even not, even though I’m not an author, I look at this and say, I have a story. And then sometimes there’s other people that that’s exactly what they needed to hear, because it’s bigger than you or I, Jimmy, right? It’s, it’s who we are. It’s because of who we were made and why we were sent. So thank you.

Jimmy Ward: That’s why there’s millions and billions of us here, right, to glean from, not just a few of us.

Marc Wolfe: That’s true. Jimmy, thanks so much for your time. And I appreciate your answers and insight.

Jimmy Ward: Thank you, Marc.

Marc Wolfe: Thank you for listening to The Yeah, But Podcast. If today’s episode provided valuable perspective on how to overcome the excuses that can hold you back, let us know in the comments. Remember, it’s not about the yeah, but it’s about finding ways to live, learn, and lead better every day. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe, leave a review and share it with someone who could use a little kick to get past their yeah, buts, and don’t forget to follow us on Spotify or Apple Podcasts, and for even more tips, connect with me at marcawolfe.com/podcast or on LinkedIn. Until next time, keep challenging those excuses and keep moving forward.

We Listen: Please leave us your review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube Podcasts.